DarkHorse (darkhorseman) wrote in polyamory,
@ 2007-01-05 19:28:00
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The stallion Mentality
I am somewhat new to this group. Observed for a while and been here on and off I have come back now that significant other is back in my life after a separation. You know her as Callmesilver.

Anyway we are back to some of the original issues we had. I realize I am poly but not by what would be considered normal standard. I have what a friend calls “The stallion mentality” I am poly but I prefer my partners not to be. This is not a problem with my wife as she is not poly and does not mind that I am. She has no interest in anyone else but me. Now Ariana/Callmesilver on the other hand who is poly and prefers to have other partners. Now oddly enough I don’t as much mind the idea of her having intimacy with a friend but she wants more than that... to take it in to the area of love/being in love with someone else and it truly bothers me. I can't fully explain why though I have been meditating on it.

Now we are trying to find a happy medium here but what bugs me is the most of the admittedly few poly people I have sought counsel with seem to find that I am in the wrong. That somehow my thinking and way that seems natural to me is wrong and I solely should be the one that should change. I admit it is not fair but is it truly wrong is the question. Is there a… I hate to use the word sect of poly of people like me who have “The stallion mentality”

I’m not asking this to say “hey see I’m right” but just to get some perspective.

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kyouketsusha
2007-01-05 08:48 pm (local) (link) Track this
I have a tendency to have that mentality as well, but I'm trying to work through it. ^^; It's really not fair to my partners, and I know this, so I need to work through my jealousy issues. But I know that that's my problem and not theirs... I'm just a pain in the butt all 'round tbqh ;P

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darkhorseman
2007-01-05 08:52 pm (local) (link) Track this
Well thats just it. I wont argue the fairness of it.

What bugs me is everyone says:
You have jealousy issues
your insecure
you fear something
etc

Im trying to decide is this really true or is it truly just "In my nature" to have the stallion mentality.

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(no subject) - kyouketsusha, 2007-01-05 08:55 pm (local)
(no subject) - 00goddess, 2007-01-05 09:02 pm (local)
(no subject) - darkhorseman, 2007-01-05 09:16 pm (local)
(no subject) - mogwar, 2007-01-05 09:18 pm (local)
(no subject) - 00goddess, 2007-01-05 09:21 pm (local)
(no subject) - callmesilver, 2007-01-05 09:27 pm (local)
(no subject) - mactavish, 2007-01-05 09:41 pm (local)
(no subject) - callmesilver, 2007-01-05 09:59 pm (local)
(no subject) - darkhorseman, 2007-01-05 10:40 pm (local)

kightp
2007-01-05 08:50 pm (local) (link) Track this
What you're describing sounds to me like traditional polygamy: One man, several wives.

I suppose that could be considered a subset of polyamory, but the only place I've encountered people who practice or espouse polygamy is in small and insular religious sects.

There's nothing *wrong* with it, if you can find women who are of a like mind. Expecting women who feel themselves to be polyamorous to change to suit your needs may be expecting too much, though.

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00goddess
2007-01-05 08:50 pm (local) (link) Track this
I wouldn't say there is a "sect" of such people, but you certainly aren't the only one. I know other people who feel that way.

Most of them, when engaging in poly relationships, try to get over it. Others find relationships in which it works for everyone involved, as you have with your wife. Some go on that way forever and are happy. It is pretty rare to encounter such people in the poly scene, though, as most polyamorists are not into that sort of exclusivity.

With Ariana, on the other hand, you're in a tricky situation. You say that you can't fully explain why it bothers you. So, I suspect that it's not your "thinking" that has anything to do with this (and that your use of that word is a defensive tactic) but that it's your feelings. Your feelings are not wrong. The way you express them might be- I don't know how you are attempting to deal with this, so I can't say. I tend to think that what people do with consent and not under duress, that hurts no one else, is not wrong. If you are pressuring Ariana to conform to your ideas, then yes, I think that is wrong, especially if you got into a relationship with her knowing how she felt.

Do you want Ariana to be happy, fulfilled, and in a romantic relationship with you? If so, then yeah, you do have to change. You have to change how you deal with your feelings. Ariana has as much right to engage in what makes her happy as do you.

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darkhorseman
2007-01-05 09:01 pm (local) (link) Track this
Well I would like a relationship with her and would like to have her as a part of my life. I do not force her to stay or to do anything she dosen't wish. If she were to leave here I would do my best to help her find her way to some place better. In truth we broke up over this and she moved out. She got thrown out of where she was living due to her poly nature. I dont know the full story but I took her back with no obligation.

I do want her to be happy but I must be confortable and happy too. When she starts looking elsewhere it makes me unconfortable to say the least. She has a friend that is long distance that she has been intimate with and has more than just friendly feelings for. When he calls I feel like I must distance myself and dont want to be anywhere involved in it. I usually retreat to my office and put on my headphones on. Im not going to stop her and demand her to hang up the phone eather though.

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(no subject) - 00goddess, 2007-01-05 09:05 pm (local)
(no subject) - callmesilver, 2007-01-05 09:20 pm (local)
(no subject) - darkhorseman, 2007-01-05 09:23 pm (local)

fyoosh
2007-01-05 08:51 pm (local) (link) Track this
It's not "wrong" if it works for everyone you are with. The problem is, I find it difficult to imagine that you will find a whole lot of partners that will be happy with that situation. I, for one, would resent the fact that you could have multiple partners, but it would be frowned upon should I want the same thing. Seems a bit one-sided to me. But if you are able to find people that don't mind, then it isn't "wrong" for you and your partners. There are many flavors of poly.

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mseuphrates
2007-01-05 08:52 pm (local) (link) Track this
I haven't exactly heard it called that before, but I'm kinda in the same boat. Well, that is, my husband is very polyfidelitous - he prefers the security of things being closed, and doesn't share well (and is up front and honest about that). Our wife is just fine with that - frankly, she doesn't share any better than he does. Me...I'm more into an open paradigm. I need the freedom to love who I love...I don't do closed relationships well at all. Tried it...didn't like it. It's just not who I am. And believe me, a household of people who do poly differently is a challenge on a good day. Sometimes we just have to give each other the benefit of the doubt. And sometimes, that's pretty hard to accomplish.

I wish I had some sage advice to make it all easier, but I don't. I just wanted you to know you aren't alone. What works for you is what works for you. It's not wrong or right - everyone does poly differently. I've yet to see a "one size fits all" relationship style, no matter how many books there are or people teaching seminars about it. :)

Good luck
Eu

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darkhorseman
2007-01-05 09:36 pm (local) (link) Track this
Polyfidlitous is a term she is introducing to me and would apply again as I will mention below. One of the biggest things for me is change. I resist it. I dont like it. Im the guy who wears grooves in the carpet and you can set your clock by. When she lived with me last time there were a couple of people that came into her life and I probibly messed up a good relationship and/or friendship for her because it freaked me out because it was so fast. For example we were going to meet a friend once and I was told of her true feelings about him WHILE we were on the way there. I felt suddenly there is a new person dumped on me that I didnt know at a moments notice. You have to warm me up to change.

Now on the other hand we have another married couple who are poly that comes to visit from time to time. He is an old friend of mine as of about 10+ years and I have known her for 4. My wife is not intrested in eather of them but Ariana and I enjoy their company. Things do get intimate between all of us but in the end we know we are just good friends and we thank eachother for a good visit and everyone goes on their way. Its safe to say all 4 of us love eachother but arnt in love and I do not feel threatened at all.

Same respect my farm hand and I. He and I have a history but we havent ever been more than friends with binifits. I have known him for 15 years. Ariana considers him a good friend and I havent gotten upset over them getting close but then I know they are just friends.

These other people I didnt know. Suddenly I am expected to share her with someone I didnt even know. It just freaked me out and I shut down.

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(no subject) - mseuphrates, 2007-01-05 10:02 pm (local)
(no subject) - callmesilver, 2007-01-05 10:07 pm (local)
(no subject) - mseuphrates, 2007-01-05 10:12 pm (local)
(no subject) - fyoosh, 2007-01-05 10:41 pm (local)
(no subject) - mseuphrates, 2007-01-05 10:43 pm (local)

silverblaidd
2007-01-05 08:57 pm (local) (link) Track this
Well... your subject line is certainly ironic.

Good luck with that.

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darkhorseman
2007-01-05 09:03 pm (local) (link) Track this
If it wasnt for irony my life would be very boring.

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mathilde
2007-01-05 08:58 pm (local) (link) Track this
While you don't see why you should be the one to change, can you see a good reason for her to be the one to change either? If you want to retain a relationship, chances are you're both going to have to change a little bit. Otherwise, find someone who is happier with your view of poly, and allow her to do the same.

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mrf_arch
2007-01-05 09:26 pm (local) (link) Track this
Yup. That pretty much sums it up, IMO.

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kb4wyr
2007-01-05 08:59 pm (local) (link) Track this
I don't know that you are wrong, but you definitely have to find partners that match your style if you want partners who are only exclusive to you.

Demanding that Ariana change to suit your style is as bad as she demanding that you suit hers. You all just need to agree that your styles don't match and make the best of it or just end the partnership. Cuz butting heads is bound to get somebody bruised and battered.

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darkhorseman
2007-01-05 09:06 pm (local) (link) Track this
Well that is what happened last time.. well that and a lot of other issues but they are more easly worked through.

A follow up question I should have added is how much should she be expected to give up of her life and how much should I?

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(no subject) - mrf_arch, 2007-01-05 09:21 pm (local)
(no subject) - kb4wyr, 2007-01-05 09:49 pm (local)
(no subject) - mathilde, 2007-01-05 09:49 pm (local)
(no subject) - lottelita, 2007-01-05 09:50 pm (local)
(no subject) - darkhorseman, 2007-01-05 10:01 pm (local)
(no subject) - mseuphrates, 2007-01-05 10:04 pm (local)

mactavish
2007-01-05 09:22 pm (local) (link) Track this
I don't think you're in the wrong. But that doesn't mean your partners who want to be poly themselves are, either. You have it the way you want it, but you might not get the partners you want. They might have to go off and find other people.

Imagine if someone said to you, "I'm going to be poly, but you have to be monogamous to me." Would you want to stick around? Your poly partner might just feel the same way.

You don't necessarily need to change, but then, neither do they.

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cherry_minx
2007-01-05 09:23 pm (local) (link) Track this
I'm going to be completely honest here. Please read through before you get defensive though.

My immediate reaction was, "Jerk." That's because I would get extremely aggressive and pain-in-the-ass about my husband wanting multiple partners, yet getting jealous or passive-aggressive or any other negative thing when I did the same thing.

But on the other hand, we are all exactly who we are. (deep, I know. *grins*) There's a lot of reactions and defense mechanisms and hang-ups in every single one of us. I know I have more than my fair share. I simply don't have the same one you do.
I am not saying that I'm better than you. My first reaction notwithstanding, though I would find it incurably irritating if my husband did that to me, that does not mean that I think you are a bad person.
It does mean that I believe that you are going to have great difficulties finding partners that are truly happy in that situation. Your wife is one. I'm glad things worked out for you there.

However, you must keep in mind that it's not fair for either of you to demand the other change. Though I would normally side with Ariana (as a sidenote, that was one of my nicknames), and say that you are being unfair to her (can we say double standards?), I will admit freely that you both must either find a way to compromise, to work through your jealousy, or acknowledge this one as a loss and move on, hopefully saving a friendship.

On an annoying psych eval note, you *do* have jealousy issues. Deal with it. We all tend to protect our sore spots, to defend the parts of us that we are not proud of. In so doing, we generally get very defensive about them. Hence the term "defense mechanism". The sooner you acknowledge your jealousy issues, the sooner you can decide that either you like them the way they are, in which case you structure your life according to them, or you decide that you *don't* like them, and you begin working through them.

I've probably irritated the hell out of you, but hopefully you'll find something of use in my rambling comment. Good luck. *grins*

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darkhorseman
2007-01-05 09:39 pm (local) (link) Track this
Nope. If I didn't want peoples advise I wouldn't ask. Thank you.

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(no subject) - agnoster, 2007-01-05 09:49 pm (local)

wordweaverlynn
2007-01-05 09:24 pm (local) (link) Track this
It's OK as long as it works for everyone. Clearly it is not working for everyone.

I do think it's a tad unrealistic for you to expect several women to be monogamous for your sake, particularly given that you consider your mare to be your primary relationship.

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(no subject) - darkhorseman, 2007-01-05 09:48 pm (local)
Ugol
redbird
2007-01-05 09:26 pm (local) (link) Track this
Yes, there are other people who want the ability to have more than one partner, each of whom will be monogamous with them. Some of them identify as poly; others are thinking in terms of machismo.

Asking someone who isn't monogamous to give you that is a double standard, and one that you probably won't be able to maintain. The problem isn't that you want two partners, each of whom will only be involved with you; it's that you're asking a poly woman to give you emotional monogamy, and don't seem to be offering her much of anything in return.

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_unsure
2007-01-05 09:30 pm (local) (link) Track this
I think it very likely is in your initial "mentality" to be this way; not just you, but probably a lot of people. However, naturally wanting something doesn't automatically mean that you have a right to be that way.

I more-or-less echo what everybody else says (break up and find people who suit what you want, or change yourself), but.... if you honestly look at the situation and try to put your feelings aside - does it seem fair to ask someone to do something that you're not willing to do for them? Because while I do understanding wanting things to be a certain way, I really don't think this is a very fair or reasonable thing to ask of someone, because I can't see a logical justification for it beyond "it would make me feel less uncomfortable, though I'm not really sure why it makes me uncomfortable and I do the same thing."

Again, if you find women happy with this situation, then that's fine, but in this particular instance, I do think that you would be the one who should change. If you were willing to break up with your wife to be with only her, then I can see it being reasonable, but otherwise... why should you *deserve* two or more people, when she can't do the same if she wants to? I know that if I was in that situation, I would be very, very resentful of the injustice of it. However, if my SO said she wanted us to BOTH be monogamous with each other, I would be saddened, but not bitter.

A lot of people's initial mentalities and preferences ARE unfair and irrational, IMO - INCLUDING myself, for sure. It's just a matter of self-analysis, where you look critically at your wants/feelings and see if they're acceptable and can be indulged, or if they're leftover from a more childish part of yourself... in which case, you likely need to change your internal landscape to what logically makes sense.

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(no subject) - kyouketsusha, 2007-01-05 09:37 pm (local)
I'm just going to say it...
isarma
2007-01-05 09:39 pm (local) (link) DeleteTrack this
Is your wife the Mare you wrote of before? Because, honestly, if your wife is a mare, really, well, that's quite different, IMO and it's fairly deceptive to come here and ask advice while leaving out a huge, major detail like that.

FWIW, it seems clear to me that yes, you do have major jealousy issues and you are using the idea of "Stallion" to justify deep set issues, in order to not deal with them.

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Re: I'm just going to say it... - 00goddess, 2007-01-05 10:12 pm (local)
Re: I'm just going to say it... - darkhorseman, 2007-01-05 10:31 pm (local)
Re: I'm just going to say it... - callmesilver, 2007-01-05 10:36 pm (local)
Re: I'm just going to say it... - darkhorseman, 2007-01-05 10:43 pm (local)
Re: I'm just going to say it... - callmesilver, 2007-01-05 10:46 pm (local)
Re: I'm just going to say it... - 00goddess, 2007-01-05 10:39 pm (local)
Re: I'm just going to say it... - callmesilver, 2007-01-05 10:45 pm (local)
Re: I'm just going to say it... - darkhorseman, 2007-01-05 10:46 pm (local)
Re: I'm just going to say it... - callmesilver, 2007-01-05 10:51 pm (local)
Re: I'm just going to say it... - pleasantlyevil, 2007-01-05 10:45 pm (local)
Re: I'm just going to say it... - callmesilver, 2007-01-05 10:48 pm (local)
Re: I'm just going to say it... - darkhorseman, 2007-01-05 10:50 pm (local)

damiana_swan
2007-01-05 09:44 pm (local) (link) Track this
Yup, that's jealousy. Being the point of a V is much much easier, emotionally speaking, than being one of the ends. A lot of people who start out as the point of a V find that poly is a much different and often much more difficult experience when the shoe is on the other foot. As for whether it's "stallion" behavior ... keep in mind, most wild stallions don't end up as the master of a herd, so suggesting that it's "normal stallion behavior" is probably a little misleading and inaccurate.

Now, jealousy is NOT inherently a bad thing. What is bad or good is what you do with it, how you decide to behave. If you use it as an indicator that something scares you or feels like it might harm you and then communicate about it, try to determine which specific behaviors are triggering the icky feelings, perhaps work together to come up with ways to do the same or similar things differently so that they don't trigger the icky feelings (or not as badly), then jealousy can be as useful as a canary in a coal mine and it can be managed and worked through. If you use it as a reason to control someone else's behavior, well, that's neither good nor healthy, and it should be avoided.

There's nothing inherently wrong with one person having two partners who are both monogamous with him, IF it feels fair to everyone involved and everyone is getting their needs met. If it doesn't feel fair to everyone, and/or if it's a situation where one person is getting their needs met and another isn't, then it isn't healthy and could very well be considered "wrong".

Perhaps a poly-friendly counselor could help you dig into this?

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(no subject) - darkhorseman, 2007-01-05 09:57 pm (local)

publiusfestus
2007-01-05 10:26 pm (local) (link) Track this
When you ask your wife how she feels about Arianna, what does she say?

I don't mean your translation of it, I mean her actual words.

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(no subject) - darkhorseman, 2007-01-05 10:37 pm (local)
(no subject) - publiusfestus, 2007-01-05 10:45 pm (local)

shirlee53
2007-01-05 10:44 pm (local) (link) Track this
So it's ok for you, but not for her.Have you talk to your wife about your feelings? Also you may not be poly.

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heldc
2007-01-05 10:47 pm (local) (link) Track this
As others have said, that's not polyamory, it's polygamy. Which there's nothing wrong with, in and of itself, but it's not very likely to mesh well, relationship-wise, with women who consider themselves polyamorous. I think so long as you don't present yourself to women as polyamorous, it's not wrong. But if you're presenting yourself as polyamorous, and then AFTER people get involved with you, going 'oh, I just meant it's ok for me to see other people, but not you' then it is wrong.

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