polyamory: The stallion Mentality

DarkHorse (

darkhorseman) wrote in

polyamory,
@ 2007-01-05 19:28:00

The stallion Mentality
I am somewhat new to this group. Observed for a while and been here on and off I have come back now that significant other is back in my life after a separation. You know her as Callmesilver.

Anyway we are back to some of the original issues we had. I realize I am poly but not by what would be considered normal standard. I have what a friend calls “The stallion mentality” I am poly but I prefer my partners not to be. This is not a problem with my wife as she is not poly and does not mind that I am. She has no interest in anyone else but me. Now Ariana/Callmesilver on the other hand who is poly and prefers to have other partners. Now oddly enough I don’t as much mind the idea of her having intimacy with a friend but she wants more than that... to take it in to the area of love/being in love with someone else and it truly bothers me. I can't fully explain why though I have been meditating on it.

Now we are trying to find a happy medium here but what bugs me is the most of the admittedly few poly people I have sought counsel with seem to find that I am in the wrong. That somehow my thinking and way that seems natural to me is wrong and I solely should be the one that should change. I admit it is not fair but is it truly wrong is the question. Is there a… I hate to use the word sect of poly of people like me who have “The stallion mentality”

I’m not asking this to say “hey see I’m right” but just to get some perspective.

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I'm just going to say it...

isarma
2007-01-05 09:39 pm (local) (link)

Is your wife the Mare you wrote of before? Because, honestly, if your wife is a mare, really, well, that's quite different, IMO and it's fairly deceptive to come here and ask advice while leaving out a huge, major detail like that.

FWIW, it seems clear to me that yes, you do have major jealousy issues and you are using the idea of "Stallion" to justify deep set issues, in order to not deal with them.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: I'm just going to say it... 00goddess 2007-01-05 10:12 pm (local) (link)
	I would also like this question answered. I think that it's important to the situation. (Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

Re: I'm just going to say it...

darkhorseman
2007-01-05 10:31 pm (local) (link)

In truth yes. My horse and I are soul mates. Ariana sugested I marry her so I did. I am not sure if she was kidding or not but it kindof snowballed from there... She actually did the ceremony.

Its fair to say she saved my life as much as I did hers and just wouldnt have made it... More like an emotional ground for me. I have a couple of friends who have registered service animals just for that purpose. I would look into the same but it wouldnt be practical and she wouldnt be happy so I wouldnt do it. So far I can survive atleast a day of work as long as I can see her before I leave and come home to her. If I am gone for more than a day though I start to freak out and she starts to cry for me and will even break in to try to find me. And I do love her, in love with her and she returns in in her own way and its something that brings me comfort just by her nature. As for the rest I obsess over all my horses and that leads to a lot of assumptions. I let people draw their own conclusions because as I found with coworkers if I deny anything they just pick on you all the more. If you shrug they leave you alone.

Not quite the typical V relationship but its still valid in the context of what is going on with us.

And yes there is jealousy issues and the truth is I want to deal with the issues. I dont want anyone to say I am right and she is wrong or she is wrong I am right. Just that im not alone in my thinking and maybe there is a way to see around it

(Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

	Re: I'm just going to say it... callmesilver 2007-01-05 10:36 pm (local) (link)
	"...I am right and she is wrong or she is wrong I am right" Please tell me that was just a basic oversight there? You aren't always right either :P (Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

Re: I'm just going to say it...

darkhorseman
2007-01-05 10:43 pm (local) (link)

That is me writing out 50 replies in an hour I didnt expect this kind of response this fast.

Your not always right. Im not always right. But last time around one of the biggest complaints on every issue was that you always had to be right and if I disagreed then I was being unreasonable. Since you have come back your more open to compromise (ironic isnt it) which dosent put me on the defense as much so what conflicts we have had didnt break down into a stalemate.

(Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

	Re: I'm just going to say it... callmesilver 2007-01-05 10:46 pm (local) (link)
	Just pointing out your own phrasing there, love. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: I'm just going to say it... 00goddess 2007-01-05 10:39 pm (local) (link)
	Well, I have to say, that a)I do think you should see a professional counselor and b)what you are doing is not polyamory. Polyamory is, most loosely defined, consensual, ethical nonmonogamy. You are engaging in a nonconsensual sexual relationship; in effect, you are raping an animal. That is not polyamory. In fact, it is criminal as well as unethical. (Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

Re: I'm just going to say it...

callmesilver
2007-01-05 10:45 pm (local) (link)

He does see a counseler. And thus the reason we never bring up the full truth of the situation, because it inevitably evolves into a damned flame war.

I've seen them together, and believe me when I say this... If she were not 'consenting', he'd be spending most of his time in the ER. Quite frankly, putting a mare in breeding hobbles with a stallion is more rape then anything he could possibly do. Consent takes many forms, is a deaf or mute person unable to consent? On a level of sheer body language, horses are much more clear in their intent then humans can ever be.

(Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

Re: I'm just going to say it...

00goddess
2007-01-05 10:56 pm (local) (link)

I'm not flaming him. I'm just stating the facts.

Any biologist can tell you that it is a mistake to interpret animal behavior in the terms of human behavior. It is not realistic to say that if she didn't like it she would struggle. Horses are domesticated animals who have submission to and responsiveness to humans bred into them.

I agree with you that putting a mare in hobbles is also unethical. I can understand why people do it- to prevent injury to the mare during breeding- but the ethics of that are a tossup. However, that's really not relevant, because it has absolutely no bearing on your partner's behavior.

Consent takes many forms, is a deaf or mute person unable to consent?

Yes, and I think you know that that's also irrelevant.

(Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

Re: I'm just going to say it... -

lederhosen, 2007-01-05 11:18 pm (local)

Re: I'm just going to say it... -

00goddess, 2007-01-05 11:20 pm (local)

	Re: I'm just going to say it... publiusfestus 2007-01-05 10:58 pm (local) (link)
	And when you and he don't admit it at the start, you lose credibility with people who would have been sympathetic at the outset. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: I'm just going to say it... silverblaidd 2007-01-05 11:26 pm (local) (link)
	Just because one form of abuse is supposedly worse than another doesn't make the "lesser" form acceptable. Not that this post is about zoophilia and animal abuse, but your defense and arguments of it are illogical. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: I'm just going to say it...

darkhorseman
2007-01-05 10:46 pm (local) (link)

I never admited to sex. Again I let people say what they want and shrug them off.

In truth it is another point of conflict that I am not very intrested in sex and I have trouble keeping up with Arianas sex drive most of the time.

And I have in the past seen a counselor.

But for the range of this discussion my time, my emotions and everything else are devided between two. Thats where the trouble is.

(Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

	Re: I'm just going to say it... callmesilver 2007-01-05 10:51 pm (local) (link)
	I never said you did, either. But I love how it's automatically interpreted as such. As I said, nothing you do could be worse then what people put horses through every day. Well, except grooming. I thought she was gonna spaz that last time... I just love how people throw around the word "rape". Always gets my hackles up and has me gritting my teeth. (Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

Re: I'm just going to say it... -

00goddess, 2007-01-05 10:59 pm (local)

	Re: I'm just going to say it... isarma 2007-01-05 10:55 pm (local) (link)
	Not here you didn't. You do talk about getting physical with your animals in other public posts. I love how we're supposed to not think there's sex. (Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

Re: I'm just going to say it... -

callmesilver, 2007-01-05 10:57 pm (local)

Re: I'm just going to say it... -

isarma, 2007-01-05 11:00 pm (local)

Re: I'm just going to say it... -

callmesilver, 2007-01-05 11:23 pm (local)

Wow, hello, denial -

isarma, 2007-01-05 11:31 pm (local)

Re: I'm just going to say it... -

darkhorseman, 2007-01-05 11:31 pm (local)

Re: I'm just going to say it... -

lederhosen, 2007-01-05 11:03 pm (local)

Re: I'm just going to say it... -

callmesilver, 2007-01-05 11:27 pm (local)

	Re: I'm just going to say it... 00goddess 2007-01-05 10:58 pm (local) (link)
	I never admited to sex. You did elsewhere on LiveJournal. And I have in the past seen a counselor. Why don't you see one now? And why does Ariana say that you do? (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: I'm just going to say it...

callmesilver
2007-01-05 10:55 pm (local) (link)

And it's nice to see yet another defination of polyamory pop up. That is actually more like the definition of "ethical sluthood". I know, I have the page highlighted if you want to reference it.

Polyamory is, in essense, "many loves". And, by that definition, how can the fact that he loves a horse as well be anything but polyamorous? There isn't exactly a rule that says "we can only love someone who meets these standards". And quite frankly if there was, then that would mean someone who knows nothing about the situation is enforcing rules that are neither wanted or needed.

(Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

	Re: I'm just going to say it... lederhosen 2007-01-05 10:59 pm (local) (link)
	Polyamory is, in essense, "many loves". And, by that definition, how can the fact that he loves a horse as well be anything but polyamorous? If I get a pair of binoculars and use them to see something far away, is that "television"? Words in English very frequently acquire meanings beyond what can be deduced simply from their Greek & Latin roots. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: I'm just going to say it... 00goddess 2007-01-05 11:01 pm (local) (link)
	I'm not going to argue with you about the definition of polyamory, because I mentioned that the definition I provided was a loose one, and I also don't think it's worth arguing about. It's beside the point. The point is that nonconsensual sex is not love. (Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

Re: I'm just going to say it... -

publiusfestus, 2007-01-05 11:26 pm (local)

	Re: I'm just going to say it... pleasantlyevil 2007-01-05 10:45 pm (local) (link)
	So far I can survive atleast a day of work as long as I can see her before I leave and come home to her. Okay, so you don't see this as an addiction? You need help from a psychiatric professional to deal with that, among other things. Seriously. . . (Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

	Re: I'm just going to say it... callmesilver 2007-01-05 10:48 pm (local) (link)
	Nice to know love is "an addiction". In which case, I'm sure every member of this community needs psychiatric evaluation. She's his moral support, and for someone who faces severe anxiety every day, he needs that. Some people come home and watch tv or listen to music to relax after a rough day. He goes out and spends time grooming her. That's an "addiction"? (Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

	That's not love isarma 2007-01-05 10:57 pm (local) (link)
	Not being able to survive if you don't see someone for a day isn't love, it's codependancy. (Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

Re: That's not love -

callmesilver, 2007-01-05 11:16 pm (local)

Re: That's not love -

mogwar, 2007-01-05 11:19 pm (local)

Re: That's not love -

darkhorseman, 2007-01-05 11:24 pm (local)

Re: That's not love -

callmesilver, 2007-01-05 11:27 pm (local)

That's what I'm saying -

isarma, 2007-01-05 11:22 pm (local)

Re: I'm just going to say it...

pleasantlyevil
2007-01-05 11:01 pm (local) (link)

I love my girlfriend. I would love to be able to see her every day, but she and I don't live in the same area right now. I don't freak out if I don't see her. The description of his reactions scream addiction! It's not a simple case of relaxing by grooming his horse, he's saying that he cannot survive, emotionally and physically, without seeing his horse. For example, I relax by playing video games, but if I don't play a video game tomorrow, I'm going to be okay. I can go weeks without playing video games. Your boyfriend can't got two days without some kind of contact with his horse. Beyond that, he's attributing human qualities to an animal and trying to pass it off to the rest of us as a human relationship so that we'll empathize with him. We're talking some major issues that a psychiatric professional needs to handle.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: I'm just going to say it... darkhorseman 2007-01-05 10:50 pm (local) (link)
	And for all the people who have a service dog for the same reason? That was prescribed to them by a counciler? I would probibly be considered for the same thing and it was sugested except I am terribly affraid of dogs. (Reply to this)(Parent) (Thread)

Re: I'm just going to say it... -

pleasantlyevil, 2007-01-05 11:14 pm (local)

Wonderful comment -

isarma, 2007-01-05 11:24 pm (local)

Re: I'm just going to say it... -

shandra, 2007-01-05 11:17 pm (local)

Re: I'm just going to say it...

heldc
2007-01-05 11:24 pm (local) (link)

Given that the answer to the question was 'yes, my so called wife is an equine' it really disturbs me that this question is in this community. There's already enough people going 'zomg, alt lifestylers=pedos and animal f*ckers'. And the fact that he's so greatly misrepresenting the situation, and people will reply to his misrepresentation, without having read the rest of the comments and been informed of the truth.....the whole thing really disturbs me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: I'm just going to say it...

lederhosen
2007-01-05 10:57 pm (local) (link)

Thanks for saying this, because I would've if you hadn't. I suspect a lot of people on this group - myself included - would object to "polyamory" being used to describe this relationship.

For my own part, it's because informed consent is a vital part of my understanding of polyamory, and relationships involving animals don't meet my standards for either 'informed' or 'consent'.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

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